Is honey really a supersaturated solution? Does heating to un-crystalize redissolve it or melt it?
$begingroup$
In the SciShow video Honey: Bacteria's Worst Enemy after about 00:30
the narrator says:
Honey is only about 17% water. Most, but not all of what remains is sugar. The two main types of sugar in honey are glucose and fructose. Like all sugars, glucose and fructose are sticky — they attract water.
Honey is technically a supersaturated solution, meaning it contains more sugar than would normally dissolve at that temperature. That’s why it eventually gets all crystally in the pantry — over time, sugar comes out of the solution.
In my experience when old honey "gets all crystally in the pantry" I've placed the jar in a hot water bath, and eventually the honey's viscous liquidy consistency is restored.
When I do this, am I redissolving the sugar, or melting it?
I'm asking because even hot, with only 17% water it's hard to imagine it can become an unsaturated solution.
everyday-chemistry solubility melting-point recrystallization viscosity
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
In the SciShow video Honey: Bacteria's Worst Enemy after about 00:30
the narrator says:
Honey is only about 17% water. Most, but not all of what remains is sugar. The two main types of sugar in honey are glucose and fructose. Like all sugars, glucose and fructose are sticky — they attract water.
Honey is technically a supersaturated solution, meaning it contains more sugar than would normally dissolve at that temperature. That’s why it eventually gets all crystally in the pantry — over time, sugar comes out of the solution.
In my experience when old honey "gets all crystally in the pantry" I've placed the jar in a hot water bath, and eventually the honey's viscous liquidy consistency is restored.
When I do this, am I redissolving the sugar, or melting it?
I'm asking because even hot, with only 17% water it's hard to imagine it can become an unsaturated solution.
everyday-chemistry solubility melting-point recrystallization viscosity
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In the SciShow video Honey: Bacteria's Worst Enemy after about 00:30
the narrator says:
Honey is only about 17% water. Most, but not all of what remains is sugar. The two main types of sugar in honey are glucose and fructose. Like all sugars, glucose and fructose are sticky — they attract water.
Honey is technically a supersaturated solution, meaning it contains more sugar than would normally dissolve at that temperature. That’s why it eventually gets all crystally in the pantry — over time, sugar comes out of the solution.
In my experience when old honey "gets all crystally in the pantry" I've placed the jar in a hot water bath, and eventually the honey's viscous liquidy consistency is restored.
When I do this, am I redissolving the sugar, or melting it?
I'm asking because even hot, with only 17% water it's hard to imagine it can become an unsaturated solution.
everyday-chemistry solubility melting-point recrystallization viscosity
$endgroup$
In the SciShow video Honey: Bacteria's Worst Enemy after about 00:30
the narrator says:
Honey is only about 17% water. Most, but not all of what remains is sugar. The two main types of sugar in honey are glucose and fructose. Like all sugars, glucose and fructose are sticky — they attract water.
Honey is technically a supersaturated solution, meaning it contains more sugar than would normally dissolve at that temperature. That’s why it eventually gets all crystally in the pantry — over time, sugar comes out of the solution.
In my experience when old honey "gets all crystally in the pantry" I've placed the jar in a hot water bath, and eventually the honey's viscous liquidy consistency is restored.
When I do this, am I redissolving the sugar, or melting it?
I'm asking because even hot, with only 17% water it's hard to imagine it can become an unsaturated solution.
everyday-chemistry solubility melting-point recrystallization viscosity
everyday-chemistry solubility melting-point recrystallization viscosity
edited 2 hours ago
uhoh
asked 3 hours ago
uhohuhoh
1,513836
1,513836
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2 Answers
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$begingroup$
Melting and dissolving are all the same when you look at mixtures close to saturation.
You can say water lowers the melting point of the sugar, or that the solubility of sugar increases with temperature. Different description, same fact.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Is this a general principle in chemistry (for supersaturated solutions), or does it mostly apply to saturated solutions of sugar?
$endgroup$
– uhoh
1 hour ago
1
$begingroup$
I would call it a non-principle. ;-) If you think about a saltwater solution, you would clearly use the word "solubility". There's a large miscibility gap. Molten sugar and water however are completely miscible, the Bp of one and Mp of the other are closeby.
$endgroup$
– Karl
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Honey is indeed a complex mixture containing more than hundred compounds.
As for Wikipedia and depending on the point of view it is a
supersatured liquid solution
supercooled liquid (in the sense that can get so viscous to appear solid, without affecting its status of being a supersatured solution, and undergoes glass transition).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Physical_and_chemical_properties
The facts that you describe in the Q are less surprising if we consider that
with respect to sugars crystallization, of which at least there are two different ones, glucose and fructose, the rest of the non-sugar components must be considered as impurities;
impurities, even in traces, often hamper the crystallisation of a compound, even in simple mixture of a single compound and the above traces. This is common after organic synthesis, in which an "oil" is attained that might crystallize only upon prolonged storage or a careful removal of the disturbing trace compound(s);
finally and most important, the solubility of sugars in water is very high, and very sensitive to T. For instance, already at room temperature glucose is soluble in the reason of 90 g per 100 ml of water, that means a saturated solution contains already about fifty percent w/w of sugar.
A table is here (I didn't cross checked the values):
http://www.mpcfaculty.net/mark_bishop/supersaturated.htm
This makes the attainment of a supersatured solution particularly easy, as in the kitchen in the case of sucrose:
https://sciencing.com/make-supersaturated-solution-sugar-6199355.html
As such, heating crystallized honey does indeed dissolve sugars, and a supersaturated solution is attained upon subsequent cooling
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
okay I"m going to have to take some time to read these, thanks!
$endgroup$
– uhoh
1 hour ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
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active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Melting and dissolving are all the same when you look at mixtures close to saturation.
You can say water lowers the melting point of the sugar, or that the solubility of sugar increases with temperature. Different description, same fact.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Is this a general principle in chemistry (for supersaturated solutions), or does it mostly apply to saturated solutions of sugar?
$endgroup$
– uhoh
1 hour ago
1
$begingroup$
I would call it a non-principle. ;-) If you think about a saltwater solution, you would clearly use the word "solubility". There's a large miscibility gap. Molten sugar and water however are completely miscible, the Bp of one and Mp of the other are closeby.
$endgroup$
– Karl
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Melting and dissolving are all the same when you look at mixtures close to saturation.
You can say water lowers the melting point of the sugar, or that the solubility of sugar increases with temperature. Different description, same fact.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Is this a general principle in chemistry (for supersaturated solutions), or does it mostly apply to saturated solutions of sugar?
$endgroup$
– uhoh
1 hour ago
1
$begingroup$
I would call it a non-principle. ;-) If you think about a saltwater solution, you would clearly use the word "solubility". There's a large miscibility gap. Molten sugar and water however are completely miscible, the Bp of one and Mp of the other are closeby.
$endgroup$
– Karl
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Melting and dissolving are all the same when you look at mixtures close to saturation.
You can say water lowers the melting point of the sugar, or that the solubility of sugar increases with temperature. Different description, same fact.
$endgroup$
Melting and dissolving are all the same when you look at mixtures close to saturation.
You can say water lowers the melting point of the sugar, or that the solubility of sugar increases with temperature. Different description, same fact.
answered 2 hours ago
KarlKarl
6,0441432
6,0441432
$begingroup$
Is this a general principle in chemistry (for supersaturated solutions), or does it mostly apply to saturated solutions of sugar?
$endgroup$
– uhoh
1 hour ago
1
$begingroup$
I would call it a non-principle. ;-) If you think about a saltwater solution, you would clearly use the word "solubility". There's a large miscibility gap. Molten sugar and water however are completely miscible, the Bp of one and Mp of the other are closeby.
$endgroup$
– Karl
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Is this a general principle in chemistry (for supersaturated solutions), or does it mostly apply to saturated solutions of sugar?
$endgroup$
– uhoh
1 hour ago
1
$begingroup$
I would call it a non-principle. ;-) If you think about a saltwater solution, you would clearly use the word "solubility". There's a large miscibility gap. Molten sugar and water however are completely miscible, the Bp of one and Mp of the other are closeby.
$endgroup$
– Karl
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Is this a general principle in chemistry (for supersaturated solutions), or does it mostly apply to saturated solutions of sugar?
$endgroup$
– uhoh
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Is this a general principle in chemistry (for supersaturated solutions), or does it mostly apply to saturated solutions of sugar?
$endgroup$
– uhoh
1 hour ago
1
1
$begingroup$
I would call it a non-principle. ;-) If you think about a saltwater solution, you would clearly use the word "solubility". There's a large miscibility gap. Molten sugar and water however are completely miscible, the Bp of one and Mp of the other are closeby.
$endgroup$
– Karl
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
I would call it a non-principle. ;-) If you think about a saltwater solution, you would clearly use the word "solubility". There's a large miscibility gap. Molten sugar and water however are completely miscible, the Bp of one and Mp of the other are closeby.
$endgroup$
– Karl
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Honey is indeed a complex mixture containing more than hundred compounds.
As for Wikipedia and depending on the point of view it is a
supersatured liquid solution
supercooled liquid (in the sense that can get so viscous to appear solid, without affecting its status of being a supersatured solution, and undergoes glass transition).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Physical_and_chemical_properties
The facts that you describe in the Q are less surprising if we consider that
with respect to sugars crystallization, of which at least there are two different ones, glucose and fructose, the rest of the non-sugar components must be considered as impurities;
impurities, even in traces, often hamper the crystallisation of a compound, even in simple mixture of a single compound and the above traces. This is common after organic synthesis, in which an "oil" is attained that might crystallize only upon prolonged storage or a careful removal of the disturbing trace compound(s);
finally and most important, the solubility of sugars in water is very high, and very sensitive to T. For instance, already at room temperature glucose is soluble in the reason of 90 g per 100 ml of water, that means a saturated solution contains already about fifty percent w/w of sugar.
A table is here (I didn't cross checked the values):
http://www.mpcfaculty.net/mark_bishop/supersaturated.htm
This makes the attainment of a supersatured solution particularly easy, as in the kitchen in the case of sucrose:
https://sciencing.com/make-supersaturated-solution-sugar-6199355.html
As such, heating crystallized honey does indeed dissolve sugars, and a supersaturated solution is attained upon subsequent cooling
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
okay I"m going to have to take some time to read these, thanks!
$endgroup$
– uhoh
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Honey is indeed a complex mixture containing more than hundred compounds.
As for Wikipedia and depending on the point of view it is a
supersatured liquid solution
supercooled liquid (in the sense that can get so viscous to appear solid, without affecting its status of being a supersatured solution, and undergoes glass transition).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Physical_and_chemical_properties
The facts that you describe in the Q are less surprising if we consider that
with respect to sugars crystallization, of which at least there are two different ones, glucose and fructose, the rest of the non-sugar components must be considered as impurities;
impurities, even in traces, often hamper the crystallisation of a compound, even in simple mixture of a single compound and the above traces. This is common after organic synthesis, in which an "oil" is attained that might crystallize only upon prolonged storage or a careful removal of the disturbing trace compound(s);
finally and most important, the solubility of sugars in water is very high, and very sensitive to T. For instance, already at room temperature glucose is soluble in the reason of 90 g per 100 ml of water, that means a saturated solution contains already about fifty percent w/w of sugar.
A table is here (I didn't cross checked the values):
http://www.mpcfaculty.net/mark_bishop/supersaturated.htm
This makes the attainment of a supersatured solution particularly easy, as in the kitchen in the case of sucrose:
https://sciencing.com/make-supersaturated-solution-sugar-6199355.html
As such, heating crystallized honey does indeed dissolve sugars, and a supersaturated solution is attained upon subsequent cooling
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
okay I"m going to have to take some time to read these, thanks!
$endgroup$
– uhoh
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Honey is indeed a complex mixture containing more than hundred compounds.
As for Wikipedia and depending on the point of view it is a
supersatured liquid solution
supercooled liquid (in the sense that can get so viscous to appear solid, without affecting its status of being a supersatured solution, and undergoes glass transition).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Physical_and_chemical_properties
The facts that you describe in the Q are less surprising if we consider that
with respect to sugars crystallization, of which at least there are two different ones, glucose and fructose, the rest of the non-sugar components must be considered as impurities;
impurities, even in traces, often hamper the crystallisation of a compound, even in simple mixture of a single compound and the above traces. This is common after organic synthesis, in which an "oil" is attained that might crystallize only upon prolonged storage or a careful removal of the disturbing trace compound(s);
finally and most important, the solubility of sugars in water is very high, and very sensitive to T. For instance, already at room temperature glucose is soluble in the reason of 90 g per 100 ml of water, that means a saturated solution contains already about fifty percent w/w of sugar.
A table is here (I didn't cross checked the values):
http://www.mpcfaculty.net/mark_bishop/supersaturated.htm
This makes the attainment of a supersatured solution particularly easy, as in the kitchen in the case of sucrose:
https://sciencing.com/make-supersaturated-solution-sugar-6199355.html
As such, heating crystallized honey does indeed dissolve sugars, and a supersaturated solution is attained upon subsequent cooling
$endgroup$
Honey is indeed a complex mixture containing more than hundred compounds.
As for Wikipedia and depending on the point of view it is a
supersatured liquid solution
supercooled liquid (in the sense that can get so viscous to appear solid, without affecting its status of being a supersatured solution, and undergoes glass transition).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Physical_and_chemical_properties
The facts that you describe in the Q are less surprising if we consider that
with respect to sugars crystallization, of which at least there are two different ones, glucose and fructose, the rest of the non-sugar components must be considered as impurities;
impurities, even in traces, often hamper the crystallisation of a compound, even in simple mixture of a single compound and the above traces. This is common after organic synthesis, in which an "oil" is attained that might crystallize only upon prolonged storage or a careful removal of the disturbing trace compound(s);
finally and most important, the solubility of sugars in water is very high, and very sensitive to T. For instance, already at room temperature glucose is soluble in the reason of 90 g per 100 ml of water, that means a saturated solution contains already about fifty percent w/w of sugar.
A table is here (I didn't cross checked the values):
http://www.mpcfaculty.net/mark_bishop/supersaturated.htm
This makes the attainment of a supersatured solution particularly easy, as in the kitchen in the case of sucrose:
https://sciencing.com/make-supersaturated-solution-sugar-6199355.html
As such, heating crystallized honey does indeed dissolve sugars, and a supersaturated solution is attained upon subsequent cooling
edited 1 hour ago
answered 1 hour ago
AlchimistaAlchimista
1,67738
1,67738
$begingroup$
okay I"m going to have to take some time to read these, thanks!
$endgroup$
– uhoh
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
okay I"m going to have to take some time to read these, thanks!
$endgroup$
– uhoh
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
okay I"m going to have to take some time to read these, thanks!
$endgroup$
– uhoh
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
okay I"m going to have to take some time to read these, thanks!
$endgroup$
– uhoh
1 hour ago
add a comment |
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