Real “Alchemical Transmutation” of Some Other Mineral Into Gold?
1
$begingroup$
While obviously you can't really transmute something like Lead into Gold (as far as I know), is there any real-life mineral or element that could be used to artificially create Gold from whatever its composite elements are? If so, what kinds of processes would you have to run the ingredients through to make Gold?
reality-check geology chemistry materials
edited 4 hours ago
L.Dutch♦
81.3k26195398
asked 6 hours ago
BonnetBeeBonnetBee
40214
$endgroup$
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
While obviously you can't really transmute something like Lead into Gold (as far as I know), is there any real-life mineral or element that could be used to artificially create Gold from whatever its composite elements are? If so, what kinds of processes would you have to run the ingredients through to make Gold?
reality-check geology chemistry materials
edited 4 hours ago
L.Dutch♦
81.3k26195398
asked 6 hours ago
BonnetBeeBonnetBee
40214
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Related: Is it possible to obtain gold through nuclear decay?
$endgroup$
– Alexander
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
As background for an already-given answer, gold is an element. This means that it has no composite elements, chemically speaking.
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Oh... Thanks, I actually didn't know that? I somehow never got put in a chemistry class in highschool, so I might have some reading to do on the subject XD
$endgroup$
– BonnetBee
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
To be fair, this technically isn't a worldbuilding question. Compare it to this question where the "technology" of transmutation is being applied in a worldbuilding context. For future reference, that's the kind of question we prefer to see posted: one where there is a defined and specific worldbuilding application. Cheers!
$endgroup$
– JBH
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've worked out a method to reliably transform ice into water... not ready to publish yet.. so just between us...., but stay tuned (Y)
$endgroup$
– Kilisi
20 mins ago
add a comment |
1
1
1
$begingroup$
While obviously you can't really transmute something like Lead into Gold (as far as I know), is there any real-life mineral or element that could be used to artificially create Gold from whatever its composite elements are? If so, what kinds of processes would you have to run the ingredients through to make Gold?
reality-check geology chemistry materials
edited 4 hours ago
L.Dutch♦
81.3k26195398
asked 6 hours ago
BonnetBeeBonnetBee
40214
$endgroup$
While obviously you can't really transmute something like Lead into Gold (as far as I know), is there any real-life mineral or element that could be used to artificially create Gold from whatever its composite elements are? If so, what kinds of processes would you have to run the ingredients through to make Gold?
reality-check geology chemistry materials
reality-check geology chemistry materials
edited 4 hours ago
L.Dutch♦
81.3k26195398
asked 6 hours ago
BonnetBeeBonnetBee
40214
edited 4 hours ago
L.Dutch♦
81.3k26195398
asked 6 hours ago
BonnetBeeBonnetBee
40214
edited 4 hours ago
L.Dutch♦
81.3k26195398
edited 4 hours ago
L.Dutch♦
81.3k26195398
edited 4 hours ago
L.Dutch♦
81.3k26195398
81.3k26195398
asked 6 hours ago
BonnetBeeBonnetBee
40214
asked 6 hours ago
BonnetBeeBonnetBee
40214
asked 6 hours ago
BonnetBeeBonnetBee
40214
40214
2
$begingroup$
Related: Is it possible to obtain gold through nuclear decay?
$endgroup$
– Alexander
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
As background for an already-given answer, gold is an element. This means that it has no composite elements, chemically speaking.
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Oh... Thanks, I actually didn't know that? I somehow never got put in a chemistry class in highschool, so I might have some reading to do on the subject XD
$endgroup$
– BonnetBee
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
To be fair, this technically isn't a worldbuilding question. Compare it to this question where the "technology" of transmutation is being applied in a worldbuilding context. For future reference, that's the kind of question we prefer to see posted: one where there is a defined and specific worldbuilding application. Cheers!
$endgroup$
– JBH
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've worked out a method to reliably transform ice into water... not ready to publish yet.. so just between us...., but stay tuned (Y)
$endgroup$
– Kilisi
20 mins ago
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
Related: Is it possible to obtain gold through nuclear decay?
$endgroup$
– Alexander
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
As background for an already-given answer, gold is an element. This means that it has no composite elements, chemically speaking.
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Oh... Thanks, I actually didn't know that? I somehow never got put in a chemistry class in highschool, so I might have some reading to do on the subject XD
$endgroup$
– BonnetBee
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
To be fair, this technically isn't a worldbuilding question. Compare it to this question where the "technology" of transmutation is being applied in a worldbuilding context. For future reference, that's the kind of question we prefer to see posted: one where there is a defined and specific worldbuilding application. Cheers!
$endgroup$
– JBH
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've worked out a method to reliably transform ice into water... not ready to publish yet.. so just between us...., but stay tuned (Y)
$endgroup$
– Kilisi
20 mins ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Related: Is it possible to obtain gold through nuclear decay?
$endgroup$
– Alexander
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
Related: Is it possible to obtain gold through nuclear decay?
$endgroup$
– Alexander
6 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
As background for an already-given answer, gold is an element. This means that it has no composite elements, chemically speaking.
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
As background for an already-given answer, gold is an element. This means that it has no composite elements, chemically speaking.
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Oh... Thanks, I actually didn't know that? I somehow never got put in a chemistry class in highschool, so I might have some reading to do on the subject XD
$endgroup$
– BonnetBee
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
Oh... Thanks, I actually didn't know that? I somehow never got put in a chemistry class in highschool, so I might have some reading to do on the subject XD
$endgroup$
– BonnetBee
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
To be fair, this technically isn't a worldbuilding question. Compare it to this question where the "technology" of transmutation is being applied in a worldbuilding context. For future reference, that's the kind of question we prefer to see posted: one where there is a defined and specific worldbuilding application. Cheers!
$endgroup$
– JBH
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
To be fair, this technically isn't a worldbuilding question. Compare it to this question where the "technology" of transmutation is being applied in a worldbuilding context. For future reference, that's the kind of question we prefer to see posted: one where there is a defined and specific worldbuilding application. Cheers!
$endgroup$
– JBH
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've worked out a method to reliably transform ice into water... not ready to publish yet.. so just between us...., but stay tuned (Y)
$endgroup$
– Kilisi
20 mins ago
$begingroup$
I've worked out a method to reliably transform ice into water... not ready to publish yet.. so just between us...., but stay tuned (Y)
$endgroup$
– Kilisi
20 mins ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
7
$begingroup$
Changing Element A into Element B requires changing the number of protons in each atom of Element A. There is NO chemical process that can affect the number of protons in any atom.
Chemical processes can be used to concentrate or dilute gold atoms mixed among others. Chemical processes can bond or separate gold atoms locked in compounds. But no chemical process can change another element into gold.
...assuming your alchemist is honest, of course. Any charlatan worthy of the name can whip up a convincing transmutation swindle.
answered 6 hours ago
user535733user535733
8,30921734
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Ah! So maybe "Transmutation", in this setting, is really just a matter of Sifting Out Gold That's Already There?
$endgroup$
– BonnetBee
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Which is more commonly called "smelting and refining". 911metallurgist.com/blog/gold-smelting-refining-process
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@BonnetBee Does magic exist in the setting? If so, perhaps nuclear transmutation is possible through the application of magic?
$endgroup$
– Arkenstein XII
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@ArkensteinXII - he's got the reality-check tag in place, so... probably not?
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
This is the correct answer. To make a point: we can manipulate molecules by moving elements in and out of molecular configurations - but we cannot manipulate elements other than destructively. We can take them apart (via e.g. nuclear explosions or particle accelerators), but we don't know how to put them back together again... yet.... perhaps someday there will be technomages. And then gold will be worthless.
$endgroup$
– JBH
4 hours ago
|
show 9 more comments
4
$begingroup$
While it is impossible to transmute any element into another by chemical means, it is entirely possible to do it via nuclear means.
In fact, Glenn T. Seaborg in 1980 was able to transmute several thousand atoms of bismuth into gold, however at a net loss economically speaking (the cost of equipment, energy, and bismuth was greater than the value of the gold.)
answered 6 hours ago
Arkenstein XIIArkenstein XII
2,548425
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
"At a net loss", I rather expect, is a major understatement. Gold's highest value in 1980 was $850/ounce, or ~$28/gram. Assuming ten thousand atoms, the value of the created gold would be 3.3 * 10^-18g * $28/g or approximately a hundred trillionth of a cent. Also, the majority of the transmuted gold was radioactive and would have decayed over the course of the next year.
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
You get better results when you expose Hg 196 to a high neutron flux. It would create Hg 197, and EC into Au 197, which is stable. But again, would be ridiculously expensive to create a sufficient quantity of it. Especially since Hg196 represents 0.15% of naturally occurring mercury
$endgroup$
– sonvar
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Assuming the existence of nanobots - robots so tiny, they can manipulate atoms with a good degree of precision, would it be possible to have them re-arrange protons and neutrons to literally make any atom we want?
$endgroup$
– vlaz
52 mins ago
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
Given your response to existing answers, I have a potentially showy solution for your would-be alchemist:
Calavarite (naturally occurring gold telluride)
It's uncommon in real life, but could be unusually common for whatever reason in the vicinity of wherever this feat is to take place.
Your would-be alchemist/wizard is dropping fancy stones into vitriol, as one does, to see what happens. To his shock, a gleam of gold starts to form as the liquid turns red. He has discovered the Philosopher's Stone!
(He has not. But it's a good way to get more research money from the local royalty!)
edited 5 hours ago
Gimelist
2,038411
answered 5 hours ago
jdunlopjdunlop
7,57911643
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
This is the correct answer.
$endgroup$
– Gimelist
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Gimelist : ^ No it's not : The question was "is there any real-life mineral or element that could be used to artificially create Gold" this answer doesn't answer that question, it suggests a source of gold that gold can be extracted from, & the question wasn't "name an ore that gold can be smelted from" : it's a nice response to the question but to call it the "correct" answer, is not correct.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Pelinore no - because "gold telluride" does not equal "gold". Just like hydrogen does not equal water. So you're taking "some mineral", being gold telluride (= not gold), and you process it somehow to turn it into gold from "whatever its composite elements are", which happen to be gold and tellurium. There was no condition that gold cannot be a component of the mineral.
$endgroup$
– Gimelist
4 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Gimelist : all I can say is kindly read the question again & check the definitions of the words "create" & "extract" then reconsider.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Pelinore to the "man on the street", or someone in a medieval society with no knowledge of 20th and 21st century chemistry, the distinction in meaningless. When you look at the history of element discovery, many elements were "discovered" only to be later realised to contain a combination of elements. The lanthanides are an excellent example of that.
$endgroup$
– Gimelist
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "579"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
draft saved
draft discarded
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f137677%2freal-alchemical-transmutation-of-some-other-mineral-into-gold%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
7
$begingroup$
Changing Element A into Element B requires changing the number of protons in each atom of Element A. There is NO chemical process that can affect the number of protons in any atom.
Chemical processes can be used to concentrate or dilute gold atoms mixed among others. Chemical processes can bond or separate gold atoms locked in compounds. But no chemical process can change another element into gold.
...assuming your alchemist is honest, of course. Any charlatan worthy of the name can whip up a convincing transmutation swindle.
answered 6 hours ago
user535733user535733
8,30921734
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Ah! So maybe "Transmutation", in this setting, is really just a matter of Sifting Out Gold That's Already There?
$endgroup$
– BonnetBee
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Which is more commonly called "smelting and refining". 911metallurgist.com/blog/gold-smelting-refining-process
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@BonnetBee Does magic exist in the setting? If so, perhaps nuclear transmutation is possible through the application of magic?
$endgroup$
– Arkenstein XII
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@ArkensteinXII - he's got the reality-check tag in place, so... probably not?
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
This is the correct answer. To make a point: we can manipulate molecules by moving elements in and out of molecular configurations - but we cannot manipulate elements other than destructively. We can take them apart (via e.g. nuclear explosions or particle accelerators), but we don't know how to put them back together again... yet.... perhaps someday there will be technomages. And then gold will be worthless.
$endgroup$
– JBH
4 hours ago
|
show 9 more comments
7
$begingroup$
Changing Element A into Element B requires changing the number of protons in each atom of Element A. There is NO chemical process that can affect the number of protons in any atom.
Chemical processes can be used to concentrate or dilute gold atoms mixed among others. Chemical processes can bond or separate gold atoms locked in compounds. But no chemical process can change another element into gold.
...assuming your alchemist is honest, of course. Any charlatan worthy of the name can whip up a convincing transmutation swindle.
answered 6 hours ago
user535733user535733
8,30921734
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Ah! So maybe "Transmutation", in this setting, is really just a matter of Sifting Out Gold That's Already There?
$endgroup$
– BonnetBee
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Which is more commonly called "smelting and refining". 911metallurgist.com/blog/gold-smelting-refining-process
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@BonnetBee Does magic exist in the setting? If so, perhaps nuclear transmutation is possible through the application of magic?
$endgroup$
– Arkenstein XII
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@ArkensteinXII - he's got the reality-check tag in place, so... probably not?
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
This is the correct answer. To make a point: we can manipulate molecules by moving elements in and out of molecular configurations - but we cannot manipulate elements other than destructively. We can take them apart (via e.g. nuclear explosions or particle accelerators), but we don't know how to put them back together again... yet.... perhaps someday there will be technomages. And then gold will be worthless.
$endgroup$
– JBH
4 hours ago
|
show 9 more comments
7
7
7
$begingroup$
Changing Element A into Element B requires changing the number of protons in each atom of Element A. There is NO chemical process that can affect the number of protons in any atom.
Chemical processes can be used to concentrate or dilute gold atoms mixed among others. Chemical processes can bond or separate gold atoms locked in compounds. But no chemical process can change another element into gold.
...assuming your alchemist is honest, of course. Any charlatan worthy of the name can whip up a convincing transmutation swindle.
answered 6 hours ago
user535733user535733
8,30921734
$endgroup$
Changing Element A into Element B requires changing the number of protons in each atom of Element A. There is NO chemical process that can affect the number of protons in any atom.
Chemical processes can be used to concentrate or dilute gold atoms mixed among others. Chemical processes can bond or separate gold atoms locked in compounds. But no chemical process can change another element into gold.
...assuming your alchemist is honest, of course. Any charlatan worthy of the name can whip up a convincing transmutation swindle.
answered 6 hours ago
user535733user535733
8,30921734
edited 4 hours ago
answered 6 hours ago
user535733user535733
8,30921734
answered 6 hours ago
user535733user535733
8,30921734
answered 6 hours ago
user535733user535733
8,30921734
8,30921734
1
$begingroup$
Ah! So maybe "Transmutation", in this setting, is really just a matter of Sifting Out Gold That's Already There?
$endgroup$
– BonnetBee
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Which is more commonly called "smelting and refining". 911metallurgist.com/blog/gold-smelting-refining-process
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@BonnetBee Does magic exist in the setting? If so, perhaps nuclear transmutation is possible through the application of magic?
$endgroup$
– Arkenstein XII
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@ArkensteinXII - he's got the reality-check tag in place, so... probably not?
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
This is the correct answer. To make a point: we can manipulate molecules by moving elements in and out of molecular configurations - but we cannot manipulate elements other than destructively. We can take them apart (via e.g. nuclear explosions or particle accelerators), but we don't know how to put them back together again... yet.... perhaps someday there will be technomages. And then gold will be worthless.
$endgroup$
– JBH
4 hours ago
|
show 9 more comments
1
$begingroup$
Ah! So maybe "Transmutation", in this setting, is really just a matter of Sifting Out Gold That's Already There?
$endgroup$
– BonnetBee
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Which is more commonly called "smelting and refining". 911metallurgist.com/blog/gold-smelting-refining-process
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@BonnetBee Does magic exist in the setting? If so, perhaps nuclear transmutation is possible through the application of magic?
$endgroup$
– Arkenstein XII
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@ArkensteinXII - he's got the reality-check tag in place, so... probably not?
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
This is the correct answer. To make a point: we can manipulate molecules by moving elements in and out of molecular configurations - but we cannot manipulate elements other than destructively. We can take them apart (via e.g. nuclear explosions or particle accelerators), but we don't know how to put them back together again... yet.... perhaps someday there will be technomages. And then gold will be worthless.
$endgroup$
– JBH
4 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Ah! So maybe "Transmutation", in this setting, is really just a matter of Sifting Out Gold That's Already There?
$endgroup$
– BonnetBee
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
Ah! So maybe "Transmutation", in this setting, is really just a matter of Sifting Out Gold That's Already There?
$endgroup$
– BonnetBee
6 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Which is more commonly called "smelting and refining". 911metallurgist.com/blog/gold-smelting-refining-process
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
Which is more commonly called "smelting and refining". 911metallurgist.com/blog/gold-smelting-refining-process
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@BonnetBee Does magic exist in the setting? If so, perhaps nuclear transmutation is possible through the application of magic?
$endgroup$
– Arkenstein XII
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@BonnetBee Does magic exist in the setting? If so, perhaps nuclear transmutation is possible through the application of magic?
$endgroup$
– Arkenstein XII
6 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@ArkensteinXII - he's got the reality-check tag in place, so... probably not?
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
@ArkensteinXII - he's got the reality-check tag in place, so... probably not?
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
This is the correct answer. To make a point: we can manipulate molecules by moving elements in and out of molecular configurations - but we cannot manipulate elements other than destructively. We can take them apart (via e.g. nuclear explosions or particle accelerators), but we don't know how to put them back together again... yet.... perhaps someday there will be technomages. And then gold will be worthless.
$endgroup$
– JBH
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
This is the correct answer. To make a point: we can manipulate molecules by moving elements in and out of molecular configurations - but we cannot manipulate elements other than destructively. We can take them apart (via e.g. nuclear explosions or particle accelerators), but we don't know how to put them back together again... yet.... perhaps someday there will be technomages. And then gold will be worthless.
$endgroup$
– JBH
4 hours ago
|
show 9 more comments
4
$begingroup$
While it is impossible to transmute any element into another by chemical means, it is entirely possible to do it via nuclear means.
In fact, Glenn T. Seaborg in 1980 was able to transmute several thousand atoms of bismuth into gold, however at a net loss economically speaking (the cost of equipment, energy, and bismuth was greater than the value of the gold.)
answered 6 hours ago
Arkenstein XIIArkenstein XII
2,548425
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
"At a net loss", I rather expect, is a major understatement. Gold's highest value in 1980 was $850/ounce, or ~$28/gram. Assuming ten thousand atoms, the value of the created gold would be 3.3 * 10^-18g * $28/g or approximately a hundred trillionth of a cent. Also, the majority of the transmuted gold was radioactive and would have decayed over the course of the next year.
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
You get better results when you expose Hg 196 to a high neutron flux. It would create Hg 197, and EC into Au 197, which is stable. But again, would be ridiculously expensive to create a sufficient quantity of it. Especially since Hg196 represents 0.15% of naturally occurring mercury
$endgroup$
– sonvar
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Assuming the existence of nanobots - robots so tiny, they can manipulate atoms with a good degree of precision, would it be possible to have them re-arrange protons and neutrons to literally make any atom we want?
$endgroup$
– vlaz
52 mins ago
add a comment |
4
$begingroup$
While it is impossible to transmute any element into another by chemical means, it is entirely possible to do it via nuclear means.
In fact, Glenn T. Seaborg in 1980 was able to transmute several thousand atoms of bismuth into gold, however at a net loss economically speaking (the cost of equipment, energy, and bismuth was greater than the value of the gold.)
answered 6 hours ago
Arkenstein XIIArkenstein XII
2,548425
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
"At a net loss", I rather expect, is a major understatement. Gold's highest value in 1980 was $850/ounce, or ~$28/gram. Assuming ten thousand atoms, the value of the created gold would be 3.3 * 10^-18g * $28/g or approximately a hundred trillionth of a cent. Also, the majority of the transmuted gold was radioactive and would have decayed over the course of the next year.
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
You get better results when you expose Hg 196 to a high neutron flux. It would create Hg 197, and EC into Au 197, which is stable. But again, would be ridiculously expensive to create a sufficient quantity of it. Especially since Hg196 represents 0.15% of naturally occurring mercury
$endgroup$
– sonvar
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Assuming the existence of nanobots - robots so tiny, they can manipulate atoms with a good degree of precision, would it be possible to have them re-arrange protons and neutrons to literally make any atom we want?
$endgroup$
– vlaz
52 mins ago
add a comment |
4
4
4
$begingroup$
While it is impossible to transmute any element into another by chemical means, it is entirely possible to do it via nuclear means.
In fact, Glenn T. Seaborg in 1980 was able to transmute several thousand atoms of bismuth into gold, however at a net loss economically speaking (the cost of equipment, energy, and bismuth was greater than the value of the gold.)
answered 6 hours ago
Arkenstein XIIArkenstein XII
2,548425
$endgroup$
While it is impossible to transmute any element into another by chemical means, it is entirely possible to do it via nuclear means.
In fact, Glenn T. Seaborg in 1980 was able to transmute several thousand atoms of bismuth into gold, however at a net loss economically speaking (the cost of equipment, energy, and bismuth was greater than the value of the gold.)
answered 6 hours ago
Arkenstein XIIArkenstein XII
2,548425
answered 6 hours ago
Arkenstein XIIArkenstein XII
2,548425
answered 6 hours ago
Arkenstein XIIArkenstein XII
2,548425
answered 6 hours ago
Arkenstein XIIArkenstein XII
2,548425
2,548425
3
$begingroup$
"At a net loss", I rather expect, is a major understatement. Gold's highest value in 1980 was $850/ounce, or ~$28/gram. Assuming ten thousand atoms, the value of the created gold would be 3.3 * 10^-18g * $28/g or approximately a hundred trillionth of a cent. Also, the majority of the transmuted gold was radioactive and would have decayed over the course of the next year.
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
You get better results when you expose Hg 196 to a high neutron flux. It would create Hg 197, and EC into Au 197, which is stable. But again, would be ridiculously expensive to create a sufficient quantity of it. Especially since Hg196 represents 0.15% of naturally occurring mercury
$endgroup$
– sonvar
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Assuming the existence of nanobots - robots so tiny, they can manipulate atoms with a good degree of precision, would it be possible to have them re-arrange protons and neutrons to literally make any atom we want?
$endgroup$
– vlaz
52 mins ago
add a comment |
3
$begingroup$
"At a net loss", I rather expect, is a major understatement. Gold's highest value in 1980 was $850/ounce, or ~$28/gram. Assuming ten thousand atoms, the value of the created gold would be 3.3 * 10^-18g * $28/g or approximately a hundred trillionth of a cent. Also, the majority of the transmuted gold was radioactive and would have decayed over the course of the next year.
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
You get better results when you expose Hg 196 to a high neutron flux. It would create Hg 197, and EC into Au 197, which is stable. But again, would be ridiculously expensive to create a sufficient quantity of it. Especially since Hg196 represents 0.15% of naturally occurring mercury
$endgroup$
– sonvar
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Assuming the existence of nanobots - robots so tiny, they can manipulate atoms with a good degree of precision, would it be possible to have them re-arrange protons and neutrons to literally make any atom we want?
$endgroup$
– vlaz
52 mins ago
3
3
$begingroup$
"At a net loss", I rather expect, is a major understatement. Gold's highest value in 1980 was $850/ounce, or ~$28/gram. Assuming ten thousand atoms, the value of the created gold would be 3.3 * 10^-18g * $28/g or approximately a hundred trillionth of a cent. Also, the majority of the transmuted gold was radioactive and would have decayed over the course of the next year.
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
"At a net loss", I rather expect, is a major understatement. Gold's highest value in 1980 was $850/ounce, or ~$28/gram. Assuming ten thousand atoms, the value of the created gold would be 3.3 * 10^-18g * $28/g or approximately a hundred trillionth of a cent. Also, the majority of the transmuted gold was radioactive and would have decayed over the course of the next year.
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
You get better results when you expose Hg 196 to a high neutron flux. It would create Hg 197, and EC into Au 197, which is stable. But again, would be ridiculously expensive to create a sufficient quantity of it. Especially since Hg196 represents 0.15% of naturally occurring mercury
$endgroup$
– sonvar
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
You get better results when you expose Hg 196 to a high neutron flux. It would create Hg 197, and EC into Au 197, which is stable. But again, would be ridiculously expensive to create a sufficient quantity of it. Especially since Hg196 represents 0.15% of naturally occurring mercury
$endgroup$
– sonvar
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Assuming the existence of nanobots - robots so tiny, they can manipulate atoms with a good degree of precision, would it be possible to have them re-arrange protons and neutrons to literally make any atom we want?
$endgroup$
– vlaz
52 mins ago
$begingroup$
Assuming the existence of nanobots - robots so tiny, they can manipulate atoms with a good degree of precision, would it be possible to have them re-arrange protons and neutrons to literally make any atom we want?
$endgroup$
– vlaz
52 mins ago
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
Given your response to existing answers, I have a potentially showy solution for your would-be alchemist:
Calavarite (naturally occurring gold telluride)
It's uncommon in real life, but could be unusually common for whatever reason in the vicinity of wherever this feat is to take place.
Your would-be alchemist/wizard is dropping fancy stones into vitriol, as one does, to see what happens. To his shock, a gleam of gold starts to form as the liquid turns red. He has discovered the Philosopher's Stone!
(He has not. But it's a good way to get more research money from the local royalty!)
edited 5 hours ago
Gimelist
2,038411
answered 5 hours ago
jdunlopjdunlop
7,57911643
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
This is the correct answer.
$endgroup$
– Gimelist
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Gimelist : ^ No it's not : The question was "is there any real-life mineral or element that could be used to artificially create Gold" this answer doesn't answer that question, it suggests a source of gold that gold can be extracted from, & the question wasn't "name an ore that gold can be smelted from" : it's a nice response to the question but to call it the "correct" answer, is not correct.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Pelinore no - because "gold telluride" does not equal "gold". Just like hydrogen does not equal water. So you're taking "some mineral", being gold telluride (= not gold), and you process it somehow to turn it into gold from "whatever its composite elements are", which happen to be gold and tellurium. There was no condition that gold cannot be a component of the mineral.
$endgroup$
– Gimelist
4 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Gimelist : all I can say is kindly read the question again & check the definitions of the words "create" & "extract" then reconsider.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Pelinore to the "man on the street", or someone in a medieval society with no knowledge of 20th and 21st century chemistry, the distinction in meaningless. When you look at the history of element discovery, many elements were "discovered" only to be later realised to contain a combination of elements. The lanthanides are an excellent example of that.
$endgroup$
– Gimelist
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
2
$begingroup$
Given your response to existing answers, I have a potentially showy solution for your would-be alchemist:
Calavarite (naturally occurring gold telluride)
It's uncommon in real life, but could be unusually common for whatever reason in the vicinity of wherever this feat is to take place.
Your would-be alchemist/wizard is dropping fancy stones into vitriol, as one does, to see what happens. To his shock, a gleam of gold starts to form as the liquid turns red. He has discovered the Philosopher's Stone!
(He has not. But it's a good way to get more research money from the local royalty!)
edited 5 hours ago
Gimelist
2,038411
answered 5 hours ago
jdunlopjdunlop
7,57911643
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
This is the correct answer.
$endgroup$
– Gimelist
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Gimelist : ^ No it's not : The question was "is there any real-life mineral or element that could be used to artificially create Gold" this answer doesn't answer that question, it suggests a source of gold that gold can be extracted from, & the question wasn't "name an ore that gold can be smelted from" : it's a nice response to the question but to call it the "correct" answer, is not correct.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Pelinore no - because "gold telluride" does not equal "gold". Just like hydrogen does not equal water. So you're taking "some mineral", being gold telluride (= not gold), and you process it somehow to turn it into gold from "whatever its composite elements are", which happen to be gold and tellurium. There was no condition that gold cannot be a component of the mineral.
$endgroup$
– Gimelist
4 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Gimelist : all I can say is kindly read the question again & check the definitions of the words "create" & "extract" then reconsider.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Pelinore to the "man on the street", or someone in a medieval society with no knowledge of 20th and 21st century chemistry, the distinction in meaningless. When you look at the history of element discovery, many elements were "discovered" only to be later realised to contain a combination of elements. The lanthanides are an excellent example of that.
$endgroup$
– Gimelist
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
2
2
2
$begingroup$
Given your response to existing answers, I have a potentially showy solution for your would-be alchemist:
Calavarite (naturally occurring gold telluride)
It's uncommon in real life, but could be unusually common for whatever reason in the vicinity of wherever this feat is to take place.
Your would-be alchemist/wizard is dropping fancy stones into vitriol, as one does, to see what happens. To his shock, a gleam of gold starts to form as the liquid turns red. He has discovered the Philosopher's Stone!
(He has not. But it's a good way to get more research money from the local royalty!)
edited 5 hours ago
Gimelist
2,038411
answered 5 hours ago
jdunlopjdunlop
7,57911643
$endgroup$
Given your response to existing answers, I have a potentially showy solution for your would-be alchemist:
Calavarite (naturally occurring gold telluride)
It's uncommon in real life, but could be unusually common for whatever reason in the vicinity of wherever this feat is to take place.
Your would-be alchemist/wizard is dropping fancy stones into vitriol, as one does, to see what happens. To his shock, a gleam of gold starts to form as the liquid turns red. He has discovered the Philosopher's Stone!
(He has not. But it's a good way to get more research money from the local royalty!)
edited 5 hours ago
Gimelist
2,038411
answered 5 hours ago
jdunlopjdunlop
7,57911643
edited 5 hours ago
Gimelist
2,038411
edited 5 hours ago
Gimelist
2,038411
edited 5 hours ago
Gimelist
2,038411
2,038411
answered 5 hours ago
jdunlopjdunlop
7,57911643
answered 5 hours ago
jdunlopjdunlop
7,57911643
answered 5 hours ago
jdunlopjdunlop
7,57911643
7,57911643
$begingroup$
This is the correct answer.
$endgroup$
– Gimelist
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Gimelist : ^ No it's not : The question was "is there any real-life mineral or element that could be used to artificially create Gold" this answer doesn't answer that question, it suggests a source of gold that gold can be extracted from, & the question wasn't "name an ore that gold can be smelted from" : it's a nice response to the question but to call it the "correct" answer, is not correct.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Pelinore no - because "gold telluride" does not equal "gold". Just like hydrogen does not equal water. So you're taking "some mineral", being gold telluride (= not gold), and you process it somehow to turn it into gold from "whatever its composite elements are", which happen to be gold and tellurium. There was no condition that gold cannot be a component of the mineral.
$endgroup$
– Gimelist
4 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Gimelist : all I can say is kindly read the question again & check the definitions of the words "create" & "extract" then reconsider.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Pelinore to the "man on the street", or someone in a medieval society with no knowledge of 20th and 21st century chemistry, the distinction in meaningless. When you look at the history of element discovery, many elements were "discovered" only to be later realised to contain a combination of elements. The lanthanides are an excellent example of that.
$endgroup$
– Gimelist
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
$begingroup$
This is the correct answer.
$endgroup$
– Gimelist
5 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Gimelist : ^ No it's not : The question was "is there any real-life mineral or element that could be used to artificially create Gold" this answer doesn't answer that question, it suggests a source of gold that gold can be extracted from, & the question wasn't "name an ore that gold can be smelted from" : it's a nice response to the question but to call it the "correct" answer, is not correct.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Pelinore no - because "gold telluride" does not equal "gold". Just like hydrogen does not equal water. So you're taking "some mineral", being gold telluride (= not gold), and you process it somehow to turn it into gold from "whatever its composite elements are", which happen to be gold and tellurium. There was no condition that gold cannot be a component of the mineral.
$endgroup$
– Gimelist
4 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Gimelist : all I can say is kindly read the question again & check the definitions of the words "create" & "extract" then reconsider.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Pelinore to the "man on the street", or someone in a medieval society with no knowledge of 20th and 21st century chemistry, the distinction in meaningless. When you look at the history of element discovery, many elements were "discovered" only to be later realised to contain a combination of elements. The lanthanides are an excellent example of that.
$endgroup$
– Gimelist
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
This is the correct answer.
$endgroup$
– Gimelist
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
This is the correct answer.
$endgroup$
– Gimelist
5 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@Gimelist : ^ No it's not : The question was "is there any real-life mineral or element that could be used to artificially create Gold" this answer doesn't answer that question, it suggests a source of gold that gold can be extracted from, & the question wasn't "name an ore that gold can be smelted from" : it's a nice response to the question but to call it the "correct" answer, is not correct.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Gimelist : ^ No it's not : The question was "is there any real-life mineral or element that could be used to artificially create Gold" this answer doesn't answer that question, it suggests a source of gold that gold can be extracted from, & the question wasn't "name an ore that gold can be smelted from" : it's a nice response to the question but to call it the "correct" answer, is not correct.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Pelinore no - because "gold telluride" does not equal "gold". Just like hydrogen does not equal water. So you're taking "some mineral", being gold telluride (= not gold), and you process it somehow to turn it into gold from "whatever its composite elements are", which happen to be gold and tellurium. There was no condition that gold cannot be a component of the mineral.
$endgroup$
– Gimelist
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Pelinore no - because "gold telluride" does not equal "gold". Just like hydrogen does not equal water. So you're taking "some mineral", being gold telluride (= not gold), and you process it somehow to turn it into gold from "whatever its composite elements are", which happen to be gold and tellurium. There was no condition that gold cannot be a component of the mineral.
$endgroup$
– Gimelist
4 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@Gimelist : all I can say is kindly read the question again & check the definitions of the words "create" & "extract" then reconsider.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Gimelist : all I can say is kindly read the question again & check the definitions of the words "create" & "extract" then reconsider.
$endgroup$
– Pelinore
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Pelinore to the "man on the street", or someone in a medieval society with no knowledge of 20th and 21st century chemistry, the distinction in meaningless. When you look at the history of element discovery, many elements were "discovered" only to be later realised to contain a combination of elements. The lanthanides are an excellent example of that.
$endgroup$
– Gimelist
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Pelinore to the "man on the street", or someone in a medieval society with no knowledge of 20th and 21st century chemistry, the distinction in meaningless. When you look at the history of element discovery, many elements were "discovered" only to be later realised to contain a combination of elements. The lanthanides are an excellent example of that.
$endgroup$
– Gimelist
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
draft saved
draft discarded
Thanks for contributing an answer to Worldbuilding Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
draft saved
draft discarded
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f137677%2freal-alchemical-transmutation-of-some-other-mineral-into-gold%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
2
$begingroup$
Related: Is it possible to obtain gold through nuclear decay?
$endgroup$
– Alexander
6 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
As background for an already-given answer, gold is an element. This means that it has no composite elements, chemically speaking.
$endgroup$
– jdunlop
6 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Oh... Thanks, I actually didn't know that? I somehow never got put in a chemistry class in highschool, so I might have some reading to do on the subject XD
$endgroup$
– BonnetBee
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
To be fair, this technically isn't a worldbuilding question. Compare it to this question where the "technology" of transmutation is being applied in a worldbuilding context. For future reference, that's the kind of question we prefer to see posted: one where there is a defined and specific worldbuilding application. Cheers!
$endgroup$
– JBH
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've worked out a method to reliably transform ice into water... not ready to publish yet.. so just between us...., but stay tuned (Y)
$endgroup$
– Kilisi
20 mins ago