Why would a jet engine that runs at temps excess of 2000°C burn when it crashes?
$begingroup$
Airline engines are designed to work at very high temperatures. Yet, when a plane crashes they're burnt (see below). Is it something in their design?
(bostonherald.com)
jet-engine accidents aerospace-materials
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Airline engines are designed to work at very high temperatures. Yet, when a plane crashes they're burnt (see below). Is it something in their design?
(bostonherald.com)
jet-engine accidents aerospace-materials
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
The engine in the photograph is not melted.
$endgroup$
– Michael Hall
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MichaelHall: That's on me, I've fixed it. OP originally wrote burnt. Although judging by the LP section, it did melt.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Airline engines are designed to work at very high temperatures. Yet, when a plane crashes they're burnt (see below). Is it something in their design?
(bostonherald.com)
jet-engine accidents aerospace-materials
$endgroup$
Airline engines are designed to work at very high temperatures. Yet, when a plane crashes they're burnt (see below). Is it something in their design?
(bostonherald.com)
jet-engine accidents aerospace-materials
jet-engine accidents aerospace-materials
edited 1 hour ago
ymb1
66.9k7212355
66.9k7212355
asked 2 hours ago
RegmiRegmi
1636
1636
2
$begingroup$
The engine in the photograph is not melted.
$endgroup$
– Michael Hall
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MichaelHall: That's on me, I've fixed it. OP originally wrote burnt. Although judging by the LP section, it did melt.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
1 hour ago
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
The engine in the photograph is not melted.
$endgroup$
– Michael Hall
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MichaelHall: That's on me, I've fixed it. OP originally wrote burnt. Although judging by the LP section, it did melt.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
1 hour ago
2
2
$begingroup$
The engine in the photograph is not melted.
$endgroup$
– Michael Hall
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
The engine in the photograph is not melted.
$endgroup$
– Michael Hall
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MichaelHall: That's on me, I've fixed it. OP originally wrote burnt. Although judging by the LP section, it did melt.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@MichaelHall: That's on me, I've fixed it. OP originally wrote burnt. Although judging by the LP section, it did melt.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
1 hour ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
How The Jet Engine Works:
Inside the typical commercial jet engine, the fuel burns in the combustion chamber at up to 2000 degrees Celsius. The temperature at which metals in this part of the engine start to melt is 1300 degrees Celsius, so advanced cooling techniques must be used.
You can read more about some of those cooling mechanisms in How are temperature differences handled in a jet engine?
See also, How do you stop a jet engine melting?:
Neil - The normal melting point of the nickel blade alloys that we use in the turbine is typically about 12-1400 degrees. But what you do, and this is the clever bit, is you actually cool these blades. You have internal cooling passages, which effectively has air that flows through and it's about 7-800 degrees. And this cooling air then exits from small little minute holes that have been drilled on the surface of the blade and this air then forms a kind of a film on the surface of the blade, and this technology is typically called a 'film cooling.'
What you also do - you coat these blades and typically use something called a thermal barrier coating. The thermal barrier coating, effectively, is ceramic, typically about quarter of a millimeter in thickness, but they have got very, very low thermal conductivity. So, effectively, even though the gas stream is at a much higher air temperature, the effective metal that exists beneath the thermal barrier coating is much colder, and you get thermal grade of the order of about 100 degrees C between the hot and the cold surface. So all of this put together - this whole cooling technology effectively helps to keep the blade below its melting temperature.
The engine is designed to manage the intense heat in a controlled way, by restricting it to certain components, injecting cool air around the hot parts, and choosing different materials for different parts of the engine. If the engine is severely damaged, doused in jet fuel, and set on fire, none of those mechanisms function; the entire engine (or whatever is left of it), as opposed to just the portions intended to manage heat, will be hot, and none of the cooling mechanisms will be working.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Peters answer to this question has a nice chart that shows internal jet engine temps:
You can see that the temps are highest by a fairly large factor in the combustion chamber. This means that only the combustion chamber needs to be able to withstand those temperatures. To save weight and often use less expensive and less exotic materials the rest of the engine may be made out of materials that don't need to withstand such high temps. As such in an accident where jet fuel may be dispersed in an uncontrolled way and burn with as much oxygen as it can get its easy to scorch engine parts and anything else around.
It also is in part a question of time. The ability to withstand heat varies with time. In a crash of a fairly fueled aircraft that may burn uncontrolled for a long time you are likely to find scorched parts like this. Where as a plane that runs its tanks try and crashes in a field may not see the same fire marks. However if the plane hits the ground with enough force the heat generated from the impact can also lead to markings like this.
$endgroup$
4
$begingroup$
I'd like to add that there is no point of having a crashed engine survive the crash, +1.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "528"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2faviation.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f61046%2fwhy-would-a-jet-engine-that-runs-at-temps-excess-of-2000c-burn-when-it-crashes%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
How The Jet Engine Works:
Inside the typical commercial jet engine, the fuel burns in the combustion chamber at up to 2000 degrees Celsius. The temperature at which metals in this part of the engine start to melt is 1300 degrees Celsius, so advanced cooling techniques must be used.
You can read more about some of those cooling mechanisms in How are temperature differences handled in a jet engine?
See also, How do you stop a jet engine melting?:
Neil - The normal melting point of the nickel blade alloys that we use in the turbine is typically about 12-1400 degrees. But what you do, and this is the clever bit, is you actually cool these blades. You have internal cooling passages, which effectively has air that flows through and it's about 7-800 degrees. And this cooling air then exits from small little minute holes that have been drilled on the surface of the blade and this air then forms a kind of a film on the surface of the blade, and this technology is typically called a 'film cooling.'
What you also do - you coat these blades and typically use something called a thermal barrier coating. The thermal barrier coating, effectively, is ceramic, typically about quarter of a millimeter in thickness, but they have got very, very low thermal conductivity. So, effectively, even though the gas stream is at a much higher air temperature, the effective metal that exists beneath the thermal barrier coating is much colder, and you get thermal grade of the order of about 100 degrees C between the hot and the cold surface. So all of this put together - this whole cooling technology effectively helps to keep the blade below its melting temperature.
The engine is designed to manage the intense heat in a controlled way, by restricting it to certain components, injecting cool air around the hot parts, and choosing different materials for different parts of the engine. If the engine is severely damaged, doused in jet fuel, and set on fire, none of those mechanisms function; the entire engine (or whatever is left of it), as opposed to just the portions intended to manage heat, will be hot, and none of the cooling mechanisms will be working.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
How The Jet Engine Works:
Inside the typical commercial jet engine, the fuel burns in the combustion chamber at up to 2000 degrees Celsius. The temperature at which metals in this part of the engine start to melt is 1300 degrees Celsius, so advanced cooling techniques must be used.
You can read more about some of those cooling mechanisms in How are temperature differences handled in a jet engine?
See also, How do you stop a jet engine melting?:
Neil - The normal melting point of the nickel blade alloys that we use in the turbine is typically about 12-1400 degrees. But what you do, and this is the clever bit, is you actually cool these blades. You have internal cooling passages, which effectively has air that flows through and it's about 7-800 degrees. And this cooling air then exits from small little minute holes that have been drilled on the surface of the blade and this air then forms a kind of a film on the surface of the blade, and this technology is typically called a 'film cooling.'
What you also do - you coat these blades and typically use something called a thermal barrier coating. The thermal barrier coating, effectively, is ceramic, typically about quarter of a millimeter in thickness, but they have got very, very low thermal conductivity. So, effectively, even though the gas stream is at a much higher air temperature, the effective metal that exists beneath the thermal barrier coating is much colder, and you get thermal grade of the order of about 100 degrees C between the hot and the cold surface. So all of this put together - this whole cooling technology effectively helps to keep the blade below its melting temperature.
The engine is designed to manage the intense heat in a controlled way, by restricting it to certain components, injecting cool air around the hot parts, and choosing different materials for different parts of the engine. If the engine is severely damaged, doused in jet fuel, and set on fire, none of those mechanisms function; the entire engine (or whatever is left of it), as opposed to just the portions intended to manage heat, will be hot, and none of the cooling mechanisms will be working.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
How The Jet Engine Works:
Inside the typical commercial jet engine, the fuel burns in the combustion chamber at up to 2000 degrees Celsius. The temperature at which metals in this part of the engine start to melt is 1300 degrees Celsius, so advanced cooling techniques must be used.
You can read more about some of those cooling mechanisms in How are temperature differences handled in a jet engine?
See also, How do you stop a jet engine melting?:
Neil - The normal melting point of the nickel blade alloys that we use in the turbine is typically about 12-1400 degrees. But what you do, and this is the clever bit, is you actually cool these blades. You have internal cooling passages, which effectively has air that flows through and it's about 7-800 degrees. And this cooling air then exits from small little minute holes that have been drilled on the surface of the blade and this air then forms a kind of a film on the surface of the blade, and this technology is typically called a 'film cooling.'
What you also do - you coat these blades and typically use something called a thermal barrier coating. The thermal barrier coating, effectively, is ceramic, typically about quarter of a millimeter in thickness, but they have got very, very low thermal conductivity. So, effectively, even though the gas stream is at a much higher air temperature, the effective metal that exists beneath the thermal barrier coating is much colder, and you get thermal grade of the order of about 100 degrees C between the hot and the cold surface. So all of this put together - this whole cooling technology effectively helps to keep the blade below its melting temperature.
The engine is designed to manage the intense heat in a controlled way, by restricting it to certain components, injecting cool air around the hot parts, and choosing different materials for different parts of the engine. If the engine is severely damaged, doused in jet fuel, and set on fire, none of those mechanisms function; the entire engine (or whatever is left of it), as opposed to just the portions intended to manage heat, will be hot, and none of the cooling mechanisms will be working.
$endgroup$
How The Jet Engine Works:
Inside the typical commercial jet engine, the fuel burns in the combustion chamber at up to 2000 degrees Celsius. The temperature at which metals in this part of the engine start to melt is 1300 degrees Celsius, so advanced cooling techniques must be used.
You can read more about some of those cooling mechanisms in How are temperature differences handled in a jet engine?
See also, How do you stop a jet engine melting?:
Neil - The normal melting point of the nickel blade alloys that we use in the turbine is typically about 12-1400 degrees. But what you do, and this is the clever bit, is you actually cool these blades. You have internal cooling passages, which effectively has air that flows through and it's about 7-800 degrees. And this cooling air then exits from small little minute holes that have been drilled on the surface of the blade and this air then forms a kind of a film on the surface of the blade, and this technology is typically called a 'film cooling.'
What you also do - you coat these blades and typically use something called a thermal barrier coating. The thermal barrier coating, effectively, is ceramic, typically about quarter of a millimeter in thickness, but they have got very, very low thermal conductivity. So, effectively, even though the gas stream is at a much higher air temperature, the effective metal that exists beneath the thermal barrier coating is much colder, and you get thermal grade of the order of about 100 degrees C between the hot and the cold surface. So all of this put together - this whole cooling technology effectively helps to keep the blade below its melting temperature.
The engine is designed to manage the intense heat in a controlled way, by restricting it to certain components, injecting cool air around the hot parts, and choosing different materials for different parts of the engine. If the engine is severely damaged, doused in jet fuel, and set on fire, none of those mechanisms function; the entire engine (or whatever is left of it), as opposed to just the portions intended to manage heat, will be hot, and none of the cooling mechanisms will be working.
edited 2 hours ago
answered 2 hours ago
Zach LiptonZach Lipton
6,16912442
6,16912442
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Peters answer to this question has a nice chart that shows internal jet engine temps:
You can see that the temps are highest by a fairly large factor in the combustion chamber. This means that only the combustion chamber needs to be able to withstand those temperatures. To save weight and often use less expensive and less exotic materials the rest of the engine may be made out of materials that don't need to withstand such high temps. As such in an accident where jet fuel may be dispersed in an uncontrolled way and burn with as much oxygen as it can get its easy to scorch engine parts and anything else around.
It also is in part a question of time. The ability to withstand heat varies with time. In a crash of a fairly fueled aircraft that may burn uncontrolled for a long time you are likely to find scorched parts like this. Where as a plane that runs its tanks try and crashes in a field may not see the same fire marks. However if the plane hits the ground with enough force the heat generated from the impact can also lead to markings like this.
$endgroup$
4
$begingroup$
I'd like to add that there is no point of having a crashed engine survive the crash, +1.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Peters answer to this question has a nice chart that shows internal jet engine temps:
You can see that the temps are highest by a fairly large factor in the combustion chamber. This means that only the combustion chamber needs to be able to withstand those temperatures. To save weight and often use less expensive and less exotic materials the rest of the engine may be made out of materials that don't need to withstand such high temps. As such in an accident where jet fuel may be dispersed in an uncontrolled way and burn with as much oxygen as it can get its easy to scorch engine parts and anything else around.
It also is in part a question of time. The ability to withstand heat varies with time. In a crash of a fairly fueled aircraft that may burn uncontrolled for a long time you are likely to find scorched parts like this. Where as a plane that runs its tanks try and crashes in a field may not see the same fire marks. However if the plane hits the ground with enough force the heat generated from the impact can also lead to markings like this.
$endgroup$
4
$begingroup$
I'd like to add that there is no point of having a crashed engine survive the crash, +1.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Peters answer to this question has a nice chart that shows internal jet engine temps:
You can see that the temps are highest by a fairly large factor in the combustion chamber. This means that only the combustion chamber needs to be able to withstand those temperatures. To save weight and often use less expensive and less exotic materials the rest of the engine may be made out of materials that don't need to withstand such high temps. As such in an accident where jet fuel may be dispersed in an uncontrolled way and burn with as much oxygen as it can get its easy to scorch engine parts and anything else around.
It also is in part a question of time. The ability to withstand heat varies with time. In a crash of a fairly fueled aircraft that may burn uncontrolled for a long time you are likely to find scorched parts like this. Where as a plane that runs its tanks try and crashes in a field may not see the same fire marks. However if the plane hits the ground with enough force the heat generated from the impact can also lead to markings like this.
$endgroup$
Peters answer to this question has a nice chart that shows internal jet engine temps:
You can see that the temps are highest by a fairly large factor in the combustion chamber. This means that only the combustion chamber needs to be able to withstand those temperatures. To save weight and often use less expensive and less exotic materials the rest of the engine may be made out of materials that don't need to withstand such high temps. As such in an accident where jet fuel may be dispersed in an uncontrolled way and burn with as much oxygen as it can get its easy to scorch engine parts and anything else around.
It also is in part a question of time. The ability to withstand heat varies with time. In a crash of a fairly fueled aircraft that may burn uncontrolled for a long time you are likely to find scorched parts like this. Where as a plane that runs its tanks try and crashes in a field may not see the same fire marks. However if the plane hits the ground with enough force the heat generated from the impact can also lead to markings like this.
edited 2 hours ago
answered 2 hours ago
DaveDave
66.8k4125241
66.8k4125241
4
$begingroup$
I'd like to add that there is no point of having a crashed engine survive the crash, +1.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
2 hours ago
add a comment |
4
$begingroup$
I'd like to add that there is no point of having a crashed engine survive the crash, +1.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
2 hours ago
4
4
$begingroup$
I'd like to add that there is no point of having a crashed engine survive the crash, +1.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'd like to add that there is no point of having a crashed engine survive the crash, +1.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Aviation Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2faviation.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f61046%2fwhy-would-a-jet-engine-that-runs-at-temps-excess-of-2000c-burn-when-it-crashes%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
2
$begingroup$
The engine in the photograph is not melted.
$endgroup$
– Michael Hall
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MichaelHall: That's on me, I've fixed it. OP originally wrote burnt. Although judging by the LP section, it did melt.
$endgroup$
– ymb1
1 hour ago