How does a bat have +0 modifier to attack?












24












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I am quite new to playing DND and I'm struggling to understand how a bat has +0 to attack. I'm clearly missing something, but as per my calculations:



A bat has a strength of 2 (-4 Modifier).
This is countered by a +2 of proficiency.



Looking at the bite attack (emphasis mine):




Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +0 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: (1d1) piercing damage.




How is this calculated to +0? Should this not be -2?






dnd-5e monsters attack proficiency







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Jonnehz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • $begingroup$
    Hello and welcome! You can take the tour to learn a bit more about how this site works. For future reference, the reason the dungeons-and-dragons tag was removed from your question is because it is used for D&D questions across editions (no big deal though don't worry). Thank you for participating and happy gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Sdjz
    15 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Could you clarify what you mean by " This is countered by a +2 of proficiency"? I know this question is now answered, but it seems to me that a bat's proficiency is not knowable from its stats (since it doesn't seem to be proficient in any skills or saving throws).
    $endgroup$
    – Gandalfmeansme
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Gandalfmeansme: There's a table of "Proficiency Bonus by Challenge Rating" in the intro to the Monster Manual and the corresponding section of the basic rules: dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/…
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    4 hours ago
















24












$begingroup$


I am quite new to playing DND and I'm struggling to understand how a bat has +0 to attack. I'm clearly missing something, but as per my calculations:



A bat has a strength of 2 (-4 Modifier).
This is countered by a +2 of proficiency.



Looking at the bite attack (emphasis mine):




Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +0 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: (1d1) piercing damage.




How is this calculated to +0? Should this not be -2?






dnd-5e monsters attack proficiency







share|improve this question









New contributor




Jonnehz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Hello and welcome! You can take the tour to learn a bit more about how this site works. For future reference, the reason the dungeons-and-dragons tag was removed from your question is because it is used for D&D questions across editions (no big deal though don't worry). Thank you for participating and happy gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Sdjz
    15 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Could you clarify what you mean by " This is countered by a +2 of proficiency"? I know this question is now answered, but it seems to me that a bat's proficiency is not knowable from its stats (since it doesn't seem to be proficient in any skills or saving throws).
    $endgroup$
    – Gandalfmeansme
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Gandalfmeansme: There's a table of "Proficiency Bonus by Challenge Rating" in the intro to the Monster Manual and the corresponding section of the basic rules: dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/…
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    4 hours ago














24












24








24


1



$begingroup$


I am quite new to playing DND and I'm struggling to understand how a bat has +0 to attack. I'm clearly missing something, but as per my calculations:



A bat has a strength of 2 (-4 Modifier).
This is countered by a +2 of proficiency.



Looking at the bite attack (emphasis mine):




Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +0 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: (1d1) piercing damage.




How is this calculated to +0? Should this not be -2?






dnd-5e monsters attack proficiency







share|improve this question









New contributor




Jonnehz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




I am quite new to playing DND and I'm struggling to understand how a bat has +0 to attack. I'm clearly missing something, but as per my calculations:



A bat has a strength of 2 (-4 Modifier).
This is countered by a +2 of proficiency.



Looking at the bite attack (emphasis mine):




Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +0 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: (1d1) piercing damage.




How is this calculated to +0? Should this not be -2?






dnd-5e monsters attack proficiency




dnd-5e monsters attack proficiency






share|improve this question









New contributor




Jonnehz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




Jonnehz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 13 hours ago









Slagmoth

17.8k15196




17.8k15196






New contributor




Jonnehz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked 15 hours ago









JonnehzJonnehz

1235




1235




New contributor




Jonnehz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Jonnehz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Jonnehz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












  • $begingroup$
    Hello and welcome! You can take the tour to learn a bit more about how this site works. For future reference, the reason the dungeons-and-dragons tag was removed from your question is because it is used for D&D questions across editions (no big deal though don't worry). Thank you for participating and happy gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Sdjz
    15 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Could you clarify what you mean by " This is countered by a +2 of proficiency"? I know this question is now answered, but it seems to me that a bat's proficiency is not knowable from its stats (since it doesn't seem to be proficient in any skills or saving throws).
    $endgroup$
    – Gandalfmeansme
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Gandalfmeansme: There's a table of "Proficiency Bonus by Challenge Rating" in the intro to the Monster Manual and the corresponding section of the basic rules: dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/…
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    4 hours ago


















  • $begingroup$
    Hello and welcome! You can take the tour to learn a bit more about how this site works. For future reference, the reason the dungeons-and-dragons tag was removed from your question is because it is used for D&D questions across editions (no big deal though don't worry). Thank you for participating and happy gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Sdjz
    15 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Could you clarify what you mean by " This is countered by a +2 of proficiency"? I know this question is now answered, but it seems to me that a bat's proficiency is not knowable from its stats (since it doesn't seem to be proficient in any skills or saving throws).
    $endgroup$
    – Gandalfmeansme
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Gandalfmeansme: There's a table of "Proficiency Bonus by Challenge Rating" in the intro to the Monster Manual and the corresponding section of the basic rules: dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/…
    $endgroup$
    – V2Blast
    4 hours ago
















$begingroup$
Hello and welcome! You can take the tour to learn a bit more about how this site works. For future reference, the reason the dungeons-and-dragons tag was removed from your question is because it is used for D&D questions across editions (no big deal though don't worry). Thank you for participating and happy gaming!
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
15 hours ago






$begingroup$
Hello and welcome! You can take the tour to learn a bit more about how this site works. For future reference, the reason the dungeons-and-dragons tag was removed from your question is because it is used for D&D questions across editions (no big deal though don't worry). Thank you for participating and happy gaming!
$endgroup$
– Sdjz
15 hours ago














$begingroup$
Could you clarify what you mean by " This is countered by a +2 of proficiency"? I know this question is now answered, but it seems to me that a bat's proficiency is not knowable from its stats (since it doesn't seem to be proficient in any skills or saving throws).
$endgroup$
– Gandalfmeansme
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
Could you clarify what you mean by " This is countered by a +2 of proficiency"? I know this question is now answered, but it seems to me that a bat's proficiency is not knowable from its stats (since it doesn't seem to be proficient in any skills or saving throws).
$endgroup$
– Gandalfmeansme
8 hours ago












$begingroup$
@Gandalfmeansme: There's a table of "Proficiency Bonus by Challenge Rating" in the intro to the Monster Manual and the corresponding section of the basic rules: dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/…
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
4 hours ago




$begingroup$
@Gandalfmeansme: There's a table of "Proficiency Bonus by Challenge Rating" in the intro to the Monster Manual and the corresponding section of the basic rules: dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/…
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
4 hours ago










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

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30












$begingroup$

I don't think there is a formula that will give us that +0.



The bat is a very weak creature, with a CR 0. Most likely, the D&D designers just didn't want him to have a negative attack modifier, so they set it at 0, despite having -4 STR and +2 DEX.




  • If the attack was strength-based, the bat would need a +4 Proficiency (a bit high for a CR0 creature).

  • If it were Dexterity-based, the bat would have -2 Proficiency (negative proficiency?).


It was a balance decision. The bat also does 1-damage with that attack, which is not derived from any formula. An unarmed strike is usually 1+STR, and a natural attack 1d4+STR, so both would deal non-positive damage.



From the DMG, on Creating Monsters (credit to Sdjz):




You can start with the monster's expected Challenge Rating table to determine an appropriate attack bonus for all the monster's attacks, regardless of its ability scores. [...] Feel free to adjust the attack bonus as you see fit to match whatever concept you have in mind.




Also, AFAIK, there aren't monsters with negative attack modifiers, are there?






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    $endgroup$
    – mxyzplk♦
    1 hour ago











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1 Answer
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1 Answer
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active

oldest

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oldest

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active

oldest

votes









30












$begingroup$

I don't think there is a formula that will give us that +0.



The bat is a very weak creature, with a CR 0. Most likely, the D&D designers just didn't want him to have a negative attack modifier, so they set it at 0, despite having -4 STR and +2 DEX.




  • If the attack was strength-based, the bat would need a +4 Proficiency (a bit high for a CR0 creature).

  • If it were Dexterity-based, the bat would have -2 Proficiency (negative proficiency?).


It was a balance decision. The bat also does 1-damage with that attack, which is not derived from any formula. An unarmed strike is usually 1+STR, and a natural attack 1d4+STR, so both would deal non-positive damage.



From the DMG, on Creating Monsters (credit to Sdjz):




You can start with the monster's expected Challenge Rating table to determine an appropriate attack bonus for all the monster's attacks, regardless of its ability scores. [...] Feel free to adjust the attack bonus as you see fit to match whatever concept you have in mind.




Also, AFAIK, there aren't monsters with negative attack modifiers, are there?






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    $endgroup$
    – mxyzplk♦
    1 hour ago
















30












$begingroup$

I don't think there is a formula that will give us that +0.



The bat is a very weak creature, with a CR 0. Most likely, the D&D designers just didn't want him to have a negative attack modifier, so they set it at 0, despite having -4 STR and +2 DEX.




  • If the attack was strength-based, the bat would need a +4 Proficiency (a bit high for a CR0 creature).

  • If it were Dexterity-based, the bat would have -2 Proficiency (negative proficiency?).


It was a balance decision. The bat also does 1-damage with that attack, which is not derived from any formula. An unarmed strike is usually 1+STR, and a natural attack 1d4+STR, so both would deal non-positive damage.



From the DMG, on Creating Monsters (credit to Sdjz):




You can start with the monster's expected Challenge Rating table to determine an appropriate attack bonus for all the monster's attacks, regardless of its ability scores. [...] Feel free to adjust the attack bonus as you see fit to match whatever concept you have in mind.




Also, AFAIK, there aren't monsters with negative attack modifiers, are there?






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    $endgroup$
    – mxyzplk♦
    1 hour ago














30












30








30





$begingroup$

I don't think there is a formula that will give us that +0.



The bat is a very weak creature, with a CR 0. Most likely, the D&D designers just didn't want him to have a negative attack modifier, so they set it at 0, despite having -4 STR and +2 DEX.




  • If the attack was strength-based, the bat would need a +4 Proficiency (a bit high for a CR0 creature).

  • If it were Dexterity-based, the bat would have -2 Proficiency (negative proficiency?).


It was a balance decision. The bat also does 1-damage with that attack, which is not derived from any formula. An unarmed strike is usually 1+STR, and a natural attack 1d4+STR, so both would deal non-positive damage.



From the DMG, on Creating Monsters (credit to Sdjz):




You can start with the monster's expected Challenge Rating table to determine an appropriate attack bonus for all the monster's attacks, regardless of its ability scores. [...] Feel free to adjust the attack bonus as you see fit to match whatever concept you have in mind.




Also, AFAIK, there aren't monsters with negative attack modifiers, are there?






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



I don't think there is a formula that will give us that +0.



The bat is a very weak creature, with a CR 0. Most likely, the D&D designers just didn't want him to have a negative attack modifier, so they set it at 0, despite having -4 STR and +2 DEX.




  • If the attack was strength-based, the bat would need a +4 Proficiency (a bit high for a CR0 creature).

  • If it were Dexterity-based, the bat would have -2 Proficiency (negative proficiency?).


It was a balance decision. The bat also does 1-damage with that attack, which is not derived from any formula. An unarmed strike is usually 1+STR, and a natural attack 1d4+STR, so both would deal non-positive damage.



From the DMG, on Creating Monsters (credit to Sdjz):




You can start with the monster's expected Challenge Rating table to determine an appropriate attack bonus for all the monster's attacks, regardless of its ability scores. [...] Feel free to adjust the attack bonus as you see fit to match whatever concept you have in mind.




Also, AFAIK, there aren't monsters with negative attack modifiers, are there?







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 14 hours ago

























answered 14 hours ago









BlueMoon93BlueMoon93

13.2k971136




13.2k971136












  • $begingroup$
    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    $endgroup$
    – mxyzplk♦
    1 hour ago


















  • $begingroup$
    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    $endgroup$
    – mxyzplk♦
    1 hour ago
















$begingroup$
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
$endgroup$
– mxyzplk♦
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
$endgroup$
– mxyzplk♦
1 hour ago










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