What happens if a wizard reaches level 20 but has no 3rd-level spells that they can use with the Signature...












3












$begingroup$


At level 20, a wizard gains the Signature Spells feature. This allows them to choose two 3rd-level spells, and from then on they always have those spells prepared and can cast them once each without using a spell slot between rests.



What happens though, if a wizard reaches level 20 and does not have two 3rd-level spells in their spellbook for some reason? Is the ability suspended until they scribe two such spells in their spellbook?






dnd-5e spells wizard







share|improve this question











$endgroup$

















    3












    $begingroup$


    At level 20, a wizard gains the Signature Spells feature. This allows them to choose two 3rd-level spells, and from then on they always have those spells prepared and can cast them once each without using a spell slot between rests.



    What happens though, if a wizard reaches level 20 and does not have two 3rd-level spells in their spellbook for some reason? Is the ability suspended until they scribe two such spells in their spellbook?






    dnd-5e spells wizard







    share|improve this question











    $endgroup$















      3












      3








      3





      $begingroup$


      At level 20, a wizard gains the Signature Spells feature. This allows them to choose two 3rd-level spells, and from then on they always have those spells prepared and can cast them once each without using a spell slot between rests.



      What happens though, if a wizard reaches level 20 and does not have two 3rd-level spells in their spellbook for some reason? Is the ability suspended until they scribe two such spells in their spellbook?






      dnd-5e spells wizard







      share|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      At level 20, a wizard gains the Signature Spells feature. This allows them to choose two 3rd-level spells, and from then on they always have those spells prepared and can cast them once each without using a spell slot between rests.



      What happens though, if a wizard reaches level 20 and does not have two 3rd-level spells in their spellbook for some reason? Is the ability suspended until they scribe two such spells in their spellbook?






      dnd-5e spells wizard




      dnd-5e spells wizard






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 1 hour ago









      V2Blast

      23.4k375147




      23.4k375147










      asked 2 hours ago









      Allan MillsAllan Mills

      83213




      83213






















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          4












          $begingroup$

          You Gain Nothing



          When you level up, you resolve all the aspects that go with leveling up at that time (though DM's often postpone the actual process of leveling up to the end of the adventure day).



          If you have no qualifying spells to choose from, you don't meet the requirements for the feature, which by RAW means they would lose the ability to select spells for this feature. Since Signature Spells are selected when you level up, gaining 3rd level spells later won't be able to retroactively meet the requirements.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Since no one should ever enforced that rule for this feature, this answer seems deficient—mentioning the official rule without pointing out how bad that would be for your game is not providing the expert advice people come here for.
            $endgroup$
            – KRyan
            1 hour ago










          • $begingroup$
            @kryan while I would never enforce this rule myself, the question respondent is well within their right to enforce it, and I've certainly known GMs who would expect the player to manage their spells accordingly so they don't miss out on a feature like this. I do agree in that the answer would feel more complete if the respondent stated what their position is and why they feel that way based on their experience playing or GMing, or just basic human decency.
            $endgroup$
            – lightcat
            1 hour ago








          • 2




            $begingroup$
            I'm coding up a 5th edition character generator and I ran into a crash when I had a wizard hit level 20 since I hadn't picked up any third level spells and hadn't handled the case of a character not having any (I was just grabbing random spells at each level and just never took any third level spells). I believe it is unlikely that a character would actually hit level 20 without 3rd level spells since haste, dispel magic and counterspell are three of the best spells in the game, but I was wondering in terms of actual rules how to handle such a case.
            $endgroup$
            – Allan Mills
            51 mins ago



















          1












          $begingroup$

          The Signature Spells feature says:




          When you reach 20th level, you gain mastery over two powerful spells and can cast them with little effort. Choose two 3rd-level wizard spells in your spellbook as your signature spells. You always have these spells prepared, they don’t count against the number of spells you have prepared, and you can cast each of them once at 3rd level without expending a spell slot. When you do so, you can’t do so again until you finish a short or long rest.



          If you want to cast either spell at a higher level, you must expend a spell slot as normal.




          You gain the benefits of leveling up as soon as you level up, unless the DM house-rules otherwise. The feature requires you to choose two 3rd-level spells in your spellbook as your signature spells; if you are unable to do so, you simply don't get the benefit of the feature. This choice can not be made at some later point.



          That said, this is a very unlikely situation; the only way it would be possible is if you picked only 1st- or 2nd-level spells when you gained your 5th and 6th wizard levels, and continued picking only non-3rd-level spells as you continued leveling up. (Or, I suppose, if your spellbook was somehow lost/destroyed after your 6th wizard level and you never chose a 3rd-level spell after that.



          Obviously, this would be a terrible idea, as you'd get nothing from the capstone feature.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Losing a spellbook after 6th would also do it, far more plausibly. Anyway, since no one should ever enforced that rule for this feature, this answer seems deficient—mentioning the official rule without pointing out how bad that would be for your game is not providing the expert advice people come here for.
            $endgroup$
            – KRyan
            1 hour ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            @KRyan: I figured it was pretty self-evident to OP that it would be a bad idea to set themselves up such that they'd get nothing from the feature... Don't really need to be an expert to figure that out. Edited anyway.
            $endgroup$
            – V2Blast
            1 hour ago





















          -2












          $begingroup$

          The situation is impossible without the player causing it



          For this wizard:




          Each time you gain a wizard level, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free.




          In the unlikely event that the wizard had no 3rd level spells in their spellbooks, it would have required a deliberate decision not to ever choose two 3rd level spells so as to meet the requirement for Signature Spells.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













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            3 Answers
            3






            active

            oldest

            votes








            3 Answers
            3






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            4












            $begingroup$

            You Gain Nothing



            When you level up, you resolve all the aspects that go with leveling up at that time (though DM's often postpone the actual process of leveling up to the end of the adventure day).



            If you have no qualifying spells to choose from, you don't meet the requirements for the feature, which by RAW means they would lose the ability to select spells for this feature. Since Signature Spells are selected when you level up, gaining 3rd level spells later won't be able to retroactively meet the requirements.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Since no one should ever enforced that rule for this feature, this answer seems deficient—mentioning the official rule without pointing out how bad that would be for your game is not providing the expert advice people come here for.
              $endgroup$
              – KRyan
              1 hour ago










            • $begingroup$
              @kryan while I would never enforce this rule myself, the question respondent is well within their right to enforce it, and I've certainly known GMs who would expect the player to manage their spells accordingly so they don't miss out on a feature like this. I do agree in that the answer would feel more complete if the respondent stated what their position is and why they feel that way based on their experience playing or GMing, or just basic human decency.
              $endgroup$
              – lightcat
              1 hour ago








            • 2




              $begingroup$
              I'm coding up a 5th edition character generator and I ran into a crash when I had a wizard hit level 20 since I hadn't picked up any third level spells and hadn't handled the case of a character not having any (I was just grabbing random spells at each level and just never took any third level spells). I believe it is unlikely that a character would actually hit level 20 without 3rd level spells since haste, dispel magic and counterspell are three of the best spells in the game, but I was wondering in terms of actual rules how to handle such a case.
              $endgroup$
              – Allan Mills
              51 mins ago
















            4












            $begingroup$

            You Gain Nothing



            When you level up, you resolve all the aspects that go with leveling up at that time (though DM's often postpone the actual process of leveling up to the end of the adventure day).



            If you have no qualifying spells to choose from, you don't meet the requirements for the feature, which by RAW means they would lose the ability to select spells for this feature. Since Signature Spells are selected when you level up, gaining 3rd level spells later won't be able to retroactively meet the requirements.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Since no one should ever enforced that rule for this feature, this answer seems deficient—mentioning the official rule without pointing out how bad that would be for your game is not providing the expert advice people come here for.
              $endgroup$
              – KRyan
              1 hour ago










            • $begingroup$
              @kryan while I would never enforce this rule myself, the question respondent is well within their right to enforce it, and I've certainly known GMs who would expect the player to manage their spells accordingly so they don't miss out on a feature like this. I do agree in that the answer would feel more complete if the respondent stated what their position is and why they feel that way based on their experience playing or GMing, or just basic human decency.
              $endgroup$
              – lightcat
              1 hour ago








            • 2




              $begingroup$
              I'm coding up a 5th edition character generator and I ran into a crash when I had a wizard hit level 20 since I hadn't picked up any third level spells and hadn't handled the case of a character not having any (I was just grabbing random spells at each level and just never took any third level spells). I believe it is unlikely that a character would actually hit level 20 without 3rd level spells since haste, dispel magic and counterspell are three of the best spells in the game, but I was wondering in terms of actual rules how to handle such a case.
              $endgroup$
              – Allan Mills
              51 mins ago














            4












            4








            4





            $begingroup$

            You Gain Nothing



            When you level up, you resolve all the aspects that go with leveling up at that time (though DM's often postpone the actual process of leveling up to the end of the adventure day).



            If you have no qualifying spells to choose from, you don't meet the requirements for the feature, which by RAW means they would lose the ability to select spells for this feature. Since Signature Spells are selected when you level up, gaining 3rd level spells later won't be able to retroactively meet the requirements.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



            You Gain Nothing



            When you level up, you resolve all the aspects that go with leveling up at that time (though DM's often postpone the actual process of leveling up to the end of the adventure day).



            If you have no qualifying spells to choose from, you don't meet the requirements for the feature, which by RAW means they would lose the ability to select spells for this feature. Since Signature Spells are selected when you level up, gaining 3rd level spells later won't be able to retroactively meet the requirements.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 1 hour ago









            Mwr247Mwr247

            1,9581020




            1,9581020












            • $begingroup$
              Since no one should ever enforced that rule for this feature, this answer seems deficient—mentioning the official rule without pointing out how bad that would be for your game is not providing the expert advice people come here for.
              $endgroup$
              – KRyan
              1 hour ago










            • $begingroup$
              @kryan while I would never enforce this rule myself, the question respondent is well within their right to enforce it, and I've certainly known GMs who would expect the player to manage their spells accordingly so they don't miss out on a feature like this. I do agree in that the answer would feel more complete if the respondent stated what their position is and why they feel that way based on their experience playing or GMing, or just basic human decency.
              $endgroup$
              – lightcat
              1 hour ago








            • 2




              $begingroup$
              I'm coding up a 5th edition character generator and I ran into a crash when I had a wizard hit level 20 since I hadn't picked up any third level spells and hadn't handled the case of a character not having any (I was just grabbing random spells at each level and just never took any third level spells). I believe it is unlikely that a character would actually hit level 20 without 3rd level spells since haste, dispel magic and counterspell are three of the best spells in the game, but I was wondering in terms of actual rules how to handle such a case.
              $endgroup$
              – Allan Mills
              51 mins ago


















            • $begingroup$
              Since no one should ever enforced that rule for this feature, this answer seems deficient—mentioning the official rule without pointing out how bad that would be for your game is not providing the expert advice people come here for.
              $endgroup$
              – KRyan
              1 hour ago










            • $begingroup$
              @kryan while I would never enforce this rule myself, the question respondent is well within their right to enforce it, and I've certainly known GMs who would expect the player to manage their spells accordingly so they don't miss out on a feature like this. I do agree in that the answer would feel more complete if the respondent stated what their position is and why they feel that way based on their experience playing or GMing, or just basic human decency.
              $endgroup$
              – lightcat
              1 hour ago








            • 2




              $begingroup$
              I'm coding up a 5th edition character generator and I ran into a crash when I had a wizard hit level 20 since I hadn't picked up any third level spells and hadn't handled the case of a character not having any (I was just grabbing random spells at each level and just never took any third level spells). I believe it is unlikely that a character would actually hit level 20 without 3rd level spells since haste, dispel magic and counterspell are three of the best spells in the game, but I was wondering in terms of actual rules how to handle such a case.
              $endgroup$
              – Allan Mills
              51 mins ago
















            $begingroup$
            Since no one should ever enforced that rule for this feature, this answer seems deficient—mentioning the official rule without pointing out how bad that would be for your game is not providing the expert advice people come here for.
            $endgroup$
            – KRyan
            1 hour ago




            $begingroup$
            Since no one should ever enforced that rule for this feature, this answer seems deficient—mentioning the official rule without pointing out how bad that would be for your game is not providing the expert advice people come here for.
            $endgroup$
            – KRyan
            1 hour ago












            $begingroup$
            @kryan while I would never enforce this rule myself, the question respondent is well within their right to enforce it, and I've certainly known GMs who would expect the player to manage their spells accordingly so they don't miss out on a feature like this. I do agree in that the answer would feel more complete if the respondent stated what their position is and why they feel that way based on their experience playing or GMing, or just basic human decency.
            $endgroup$
            – lightcat
            1 hour ago






            $begingroup$
            @kryan while I would never enforce this rule myself, the question respondent is well within their right to enforce it, and I've certainly known GMs who would expect the player to manage their spells accordingly so they don't miss out on a feature like this. I do agree in that the answer would feel more complete if the respondent stated what their position is and why they feel that way based on their experience playing or GMing, or just basic human decency.
            $endgroup$
            – lightcat
            1 hour ago






            2




            2




            $begingroup$
            I'm coding up a 5th edition character generator and I ran into a crash when I had a wizard hit level 20 since I hadn't picked up any third level spells and hadn't handled the case of a character not having any (I was just grabbing random spells at each level and just never took any third level spells). I believe it is unlikely that a character would actually hit level 20 without 3rd level spells since haste, dispel magic and counterspell are three of the best spells in the game, but I was wondering in terms of actual rules how to handle such a case.
            $endgroup$
            – Allan Mills
            51 mins ago




            $begingroup$
            I'm coding up a 5th edition character generator and I ran into a crash when I had a wizard hit level 20 since I hadn't picked up any third level spells and hadn't handled the case of a character not having any (I was just grabbing random spells at each level and just never took any third level spells). I believe it is unlikely that a character would actually hit level 20 without 3rd level spells since haste, dispel magic and counterspell are three of the best spells in the game, but I was wondering in terms of actual rules how to handle such a case.
            $endgroup$
            – Allan Mills
            51 mins ago













            1












            $begingroup$

            The Signature Spells feature says:




            When you reach 20th level, you gain mastery over two powerful spells and can cast them with little effort. Choose two 3rd-level wizard spells in your spellbook as your signature spells. You always have these spells prepared, they don’t count against the number of spells you have prepared, and you can cast each of them once at 3rd level without expending a spell slot. When you do so, you can’t do so again until you finish a short or long rest.



            If you want to cast either spell at a higher level, you must expend a spell slot as normal.




            You gain the benefits of leveling up as soon as you level up, unless the DM house-rules otherwise. The feature requires you to choose two 3rd-level spells in your spellbook as your signature spells; if you are unable to do so, you simply don't get the benefit of the feature. This choice can not be made at some later point.



            That said, this is a very unlikely situation; the only way it would be possible is if you picked only 1st- or 2nd-level spells when you gained your 5th and 6th wizard levels, and continued picking only non-3rd-level spells as you continued leveling up. (Or, I suppose, if your spellbook was somehow lost/destroyed after your 6th wizard level and you never chose a 3rd-level spell after that.



            Obviously, this would be a terrible idea, as you'd get nothing from the capstone feature.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Losing a spellbook after 6th would also do it, far more plausibly. Anyway, since no one should ever enforced that rule for this feature, this answer seems deficient—mentioning the official rule without pointing out how bad that would be for your game is not providing the expert advice people come here for.
              $endgroup$
              – KRyan
              1 hour ago






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              @KRyan: I figured it was pretty self-evident to OP that it would be a bad idea to set themselves up such that they'd get nothing from the feature... Don't really need to be an expert to figure that out. Edited anyway.
              $endgroup$
              – V2Blast
              1 hour ago


















            1












            $begingroup$

            The Signature Spells feature says:




            When you reach 20th level, you gain mastery over two powerful spells and can cast them with little effort. Choose two 3rd-level wizard spells in your spellbook as your signature spells. You always have these spells prepared, they don’t count against the number of spells you have prepared, and you can cast each of them once at 3rd level without expending a spell slot. When you do so, you can’t do so again until you finish a short or long rest.



            If you want to cast either spell at a higher level, you must expend a spell slot as normal.




            You gain the benefits of leveling up as soon as you level up, unless the DM house-rules otherwise. The feature requires you to choose two 3rd-level spells in your spellbook as your signature spells; if you are unable to do so, you simply don't get the benefit of the feature. This choice can not be made at some later point.



            That said, this is a very unlikely situation; the only way it would be possible is if you picked only 1st- or 2nd-level spells when you gained your 5th and 6th wizard levels, and continued picking only non-3rd-level spells as you continued leveling up. (Or, I suppose, if your spellbook was somehow lost/destroyed after your 6th wizard level and you never chose a 3rd-level spell after that.



            Obviously, this would be a terrible idea, as you'd get nothing from the capstone feature.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Losing a spellbook after 6th would also do it, far more plausibly. Anyway, since no one should ever enforced that rule for this feature, this answer seems deficient—mentioning the official rule without pointing out how bad that would be for your game is not providing the expert advice people come here for.
              $endgroup$
              – KRyan
              1 hour ago






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              @KRyan: I figured it was pretty self-evident to OP that it would be a bad idea to set themselves up such that they'd get nothing from the feature... Don't really need to be an expert to figure that out. Edited anyway.
              $endgroup$
              – V2Blast
              1 hour ago
















            1












            1








            1





            $begingroup$

            The Signature Spells feature says:




            When you reach 20th level, you gain mastery over two powerful spells and can cast them with little effort. Choose two 3rd-level wizard spells in your spellbook as your signature spells. You always have these spells prepared, they don’t count against the number of spells you have prepared, and you can cast each of them once at 3rd level without expending a spell slot. When you do so, you can’t do so again until you finish a short or long rest.



            If you want to cast either spell at a higher level, you must expend a spell slot as normal.




            You gain the benefits of leveling up as soon as you level up, unless the DM house-rules otherwise. The feature requires you to choose two 3rd-level spells in your spellbook as your signature spells; if you are unable to do so, you simply don't get the benefit of the feature. This choice can not be made at some later point.



            That said, this is a very unlikely situation; the only way it would be possible is if you picked only 1st- or 2nd-level spells when you gained your 5th and 6th wizard levels, and continued picking only non-3rd-level spells as you continued leveling up. (Or, I suppose, if your spellbook was somehow lost/destroyed after your 6th wizard level and you never chose a 3rd-level spell after that.



            Obviously, this would be a terrible idea, as you'd get nothing from the capstone feature.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            The Signature Spells feature says:




            When you reach 20th level, you gain mastery over two powerful spells and can cast them with little effort. Choose two 3rd-level wizard spells in your spellbook as your signature spells. You always have these spells prepared, they don’t count against the number of spells you have prepared, and you can cast each of them once at 3rd level without expending a spell slot. When you do so, you can’t do so again until you finish a short or long rest.



            If you want to cast either spell at a higher level, you must expend a spell slot as normal.




            You gain the benefits of leveling up as soon as you level up, unless the DM house-rules otherwise. The feature requires you to choose two 3rd-level spells in your spellbook as your signature spells; if you are unable to do so, you simply don't get the benefit of the feature. This choice can not be made at some later point.



            That said, this is a very unlikely situation; the only way it would be possible is if you picked only 1st- or 2nd-level spells when you gained your 5th and 6th wizard levels, and continued picking only non-3rd-level spells as you continued leveling up. (Or, I suppose, if your spellbook was somehow lost/destroyed after your 6th wizard level and you never chose a 3rd-level spell after that.



            Obviously, this would be a terrible idea, as you'd get nothing from the capstone feature.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 1 hour ago

























            answered 1 hour ago









            V2BlastV2Blast

            23.4k375147




            23.4k375147












            • $begingroup$
              Losing a spellbook after 6th would also do it, far more plausibly. Anyway, since no one should ever enforced that rule for this feature, this answer seems deficient—mentioning the official rule without pointing out how bad that would be for your game is not providing the expert advice people come here for.
              $endgroup$
              – KRyan
              1 hour ago






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              @KRyan: I figured it was pretty self-evident to OP that it would be a bad idea to set themselves up such that they'd get nothing from the feature... Don't really need to be an expert to figure that out. Edited anyway.
              $endgroup$
              – V2Blast
              1 hour ago




















            • $begingroup$
              Losing a spellbook after 6th would also do it, far more plausibly. Anyway, since no one should ever enforced that rule for this feature, this answer seems deficient—mentioning the official rule without pointing out how bad that would be for your game is not providing the expert advice people come here for.
              $endgroup$
              – KRyan
              1 hour ago






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              @KRyan: I figured it was pretty self-evident to OP that it would be a bad idea to set themselves up such that they'd get nothing from the feature... Don't really need to be an expert to figure that out. Edited anyway.
              $endgroup$
              – V2Blast
              1 hour ago


















            $begingroup$
            Losing a spellbook after 6th would also do it, far more plausibly. Anyway, since no one should ever enforced that rule for this feature, this answer seems deficient—mentioning the official rule without pointing out how bad that would be for your game is not providing the expert advice people come here for.
            $endgroup$
            – KRyan
            1 hour ago




            $begingroup$
            Losing a spellbook after 6th would also do it, far more plausibly. Anyway, since no one should ever enforced that rule for this feature, this answer seems deficient—mentioning the official rule without pointing out how bad that would be for your game is not providing the expert advice people come here for.
            $endgroup$
            – KRyan
            1 hour ago




            1




            1




            $begingroup$
            @KRyan: I figured it was pretty self-evident to OP that it would be a bad idea to set themselves up such that they'd get nothing from the feature... Don't really need to be an expert to figure that out. Edited anyway.
            $endgroup$
            – V2Blast
            1 hour ago






            $begingroup$
            @KRyan: I figured it was pretty self-evident to OP that it would be a bad idea to set themselves up such that they'd get nothing from the feature... Don't really need to be an expert to figure that out. Edited anyway.
            $endgroup$
            – V2Blast
            1 hour ago













            -2












            $begingroup$

            The situation is impossible without the player causing it



            For this wizard:




            Each time you gain a wizard level, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free.




            In the unlikely event that the wizard had no 3rd level spells in their spellbooks, it would have required a deliberate decision not to ever choose two 3rd level spells so as to meet the requirement for Signature Spells.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$


















              -2












              $begingroup$

              The situation is impossible without the player causing it



              For this wizard:




              Each time you gain a wizard level, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free.




              In the unlikely event that the wizard had no 3rd level spells in their spellbooks, it would have required a deliberate decision not to ever choose two 3rd level spells so as to meet the requirement for Signature Spells.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$
















                -2












                -2








                -2





                $begingroup$

                The situation is impossible without the player causing it



                For this wizard:




                Each time you gain a wizard level, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free.




                In the unlikely event that the wizard had no 3rd level spells in their spellbooks, it would have required a deliberate decision not to ever choose two 3rd level spells so as to meet the requirement for Signature Spells.






                share|improve this answer











                $endgroup$



                The situation is impossible without the player causing it



                For this wizard:




                Each time you gain a wizard level, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free.




                In the unlikely event that the wizard had no 3rd level spells in their spellbooks, it would have required a deliberate decision not to ever choose two 3rd level spells so as to meet the requirement for Signature Spells.







                share|improve this answer














                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited 12 mins ago









                SevenSidedDie♦

                208k31668945




                208k31668945










                answered 1 hour ago









                Dale MDale M

                107k21277476




                107k21277476






























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